UCL talking points: Spurs simply awful as all Premier League teams fail to win

We're midway through the UEFA Champions League round of 16 and, while some fixtures are delicately poised, some of the competition heavyweights are starting to make some noise.

Bayern Munich's 6-1 shellacking of Atalanta has Vincent Kompany's team almost certainly through to the quarterfinals, while Pep Guardiola has already acknowledged that Manchester City have "not much" hope of overturning Real Madrid's three-goal lead.

And then there's Tottenham Hotspur. What are we to make of Igor Tudor & Co.?

Luckily, ESPN FC writers Mark Ogden, Sam Tighe, Gab Marcotti and Alex Kirkland are here to break down the action as it happened, reflect on the first legs, and look ahead to next week's return fixtures.

- Ogden: PSG are Champions League faves, and win vs. Chelsea shows why
- Olley: Arsenal saved by Havertz in Champions League but must improve
- Valverde's hat trick steals the show as Real Madrid dominate Man City

Q1. What is wrong with Tottenham? What is wrong with Tudor? On a broad scale, the club is in crisis domestically, with a reasonable trip to Atlético Madrid in the Champions League ... and they rolled over with a mostly first-string XI inside 25 minutes. Was this more about Atleti being miles better, or more about Spurs giving up? Is there any way back for them not just in Europe, but in terms of Tudor salvaging the season or his humiliated goalkeeper, Antonín Kinsky, shaking this off?

Tighe: Not a week goes by without something absolutely horrific happening to Tottenham. From humbling defeats to ridiculous slips to viral clips of the players ignoring the manager -- it has just been a relentless stream of negativity for months. This heavy 5-2 defeat at Atlético Madrid, where once again the joke was squarely on Spurs -- and Micky van de Ven, and poor Kinsky -- is just the latest in a string of barely conceivable events.

It's really no wonder this team hasn't won a game this calendar year. No wonder either West Ham United have gained 12 points on them since mid-January and we're at the point where one more defeat could send Tottenham into the Premier League's bottom three.

Tudor, meanwhile, has been a genuine disaster. They should have sacked him after the loss to Crystal Palace, because it was abundantly clear at that point that whatever this is, it's not going to work. But the decision-makers appear to be dragging their feet on that, just as they did for months with Thomas Frank.

Ogden: Spurs are a club that has made bad decisions, both in terms of recruitment and coaching hires, for far too long, and it's all coming home to roost now.

I agree with Sam that Tudor has been a disaster, but he should never have been hired in the first place. That decision smacked of arrogance, complacency and a lack of accountability within the boardroom.

Who really thought it was a good idea to hire a coach with, at best, a journeyman track record and no experience of the Premier League as a player or coach? The CEO, Vinai Venkatesham, either thought it was a great idea -- or he lacked the conviction to tell the owners that it wasn't -- but either way, he is as culpable as the players and Tudor for the position Spurs are in.

I actually thought the team responded well after the terrible start in Madrid. Maybe some defiance and self-respect began to creep to the surface, but it's too late. Spurs are going out, and I also think they are going down.

play

1:29

Why Steve Nicol would sack Igor Tudor tonight

Steve Nicol says Tottenham should sack Igor Tudor tonight and says not one thing has changed for the better since Tudor walked through the door.

Kirkland: I was there, and I can't remember seeing anything like those opening 25 minutes from Spurs, from any team, ever. It felt like a team in the middle of an existential crisis. Atleti took advantage, but they weren't anything special aside from the odd moment of magic, like Antoine Griezmann's one-touch flick assist for Julián Álvarez. Otherwise, they didn't have to do anything special. Spurs gave it to them.

Having not been in one of his news conferences before, I was deeply unimpressed with Tudor's demeanor postmatch as well. The substance of his responses, including him sticking with the absurd, on-its-face suggestion that picking Kinsky had been the right call, left everyone more confused.

The only thing you'd say is: Given the depths they sunk to in that first half, a 5-2 final scoreline isn't anywhere near as bad as it could have been. Atleti have form for folding away from home this season, and you can imagine a second-leg scenario in which Spurs grab a goal, or even two, and give themselves a bit of hope ... before it slips away again.

Marcotti: I can't really disagree with much of the above. There's an evident dysfunction and a lack of communication here, and it goes beyond Tudor. What was the deal with Johnny Heitinga? He gets hired to be Frank's "first team coach" in January -- without anyone answering the question of whether Frank wanted him -- and then gets sacked just after Frank gets sacked.

But I don't think Tudor's lack of Premier League experience is that big of a deal. Arne Slot, Andoni Iraola, Antonio Conte and countless others have done well with zero Premier League experience. It's not the way it was in the past -- everybody follows the Premier League, everybody has information, and it's not as different as it was maybe 10-15 years ago.

More broadly, I think we need to hammer Tudor more over the Kinsky thing. He made the wrong choice in starting him, doubled down on his justification afterwards ("I wanted to take pressure off Guglielmo Vicario, it was the right choice at the time."), made it worse by taking him off (and not realizing that a modicum of humanity when he walked past would have been the right thing to do) and, of course, he's undermined Vicario's confidence now as well.

What must he be thinking? "I got dropped for this bundle of nerves?"

Q2. Liverpool turned in another dismal performance at Galatasaray in this competition, losing 1-0 in a result that must feel like a win considering the effort (and they had a goal disallowed, as did the Turkish champions). But Mohamed Salah was invisible, Florian Wirtz didn't look convincing at all, and again this team is looking for a leader. Will Liverpool turn this around at Anfield, or will Gala overturn their dismal record in England to advance?

Ogden: Everything points to Liverpool turning things around in the second leg. They have their European pedigree, the Anfield factor and Galatasaray's terrible record in England -- which surely won't be helped by visiting fans being banned for this game due to a UEFA sanction. But sometimes, the obvious thing doesn't happen and there are reasons to believe that Galatasaray might just pull off the shock of the round by winning this tie.

The Turkish side boasts the goal threat of Victor Osimhen against the increasingly regular jitters of Virgil van Dijk and Ibrahima Konaté, with Gabriel Sara and Noa Lang showing an ability to hurt Liverpool in the first leg. Galatasaray are also streetwise, with stacks of experience in the squad in the form of Ilkay Gündogan, Leroy Sané, Mauro Icardi and Mario Lemina.

You still have to make Liverpool favorites because they have home advantage, but there are so many weaknesses Galatasaray can exploit in Slot's team.

Marcotti: Mark is right. Obviously Liverpool are favorites, but at the same time, there are huge warning signs Slot can't ignore.

I've talked about the center backs all season long, and it's simply criminal that they didn't address this in January. You're always going to be at risk, and they were hugely lucky that the Osimhen goal was disallowed. A 2-0 first leg deficit means a whole different ball game. Still, there's an evident fragility in this team and the fact that the ties are coming so close together -- with a league game against Tottenham in between -- must be a concern for Slot.

Can Konaté get back into the right state of mind for the return leg? I genuinely don't know. The fact that he has to play those two every single game and basically force them to play themselves back into form is not a healthy situation.

Wirtz is what he is: still finding his feet and, in my view, not a great No. 10 in this setup right now. So, you shunt him wide, and you get the sort of performance we had in Istanbul. There's no easy fix there. I still think switching to a front two would help (or help Salah, at least) but you can't do that overnight; you have to work on it in training, and they have a very stretched squad and very little time.

So, yeah, Liverpool are favorites, but the margin for error is very thin.

play

2:57

Nicol: Liverpool never looked in control vs. Galatasaray

The ESPN 'FC TV' crew react to Galatasaray beating Liverpool 1-0 in the UEFA Champions League.

Kirkland: Mark and Gab will watch far more of Liverpool than I do. And I accept this is a flawed Liverpool team. But still, this is Liverpool, in Europe, at Anfield. Surely they'll overturn a one-goal deficit? If Galatasaray went into the second leg with a two- or three-goal advantage, sure, they'd have a chance. But I can't see how Liverpool don't turn this around. And just look at Galatasaray's away record in the Champions League this season: They've lost four out of five games, with defeats at Eintracht Frankfurt, AS Monaco, Manchester City and Juventus, and just one win, at Ajax Amsterdam in November. Personally, I can't see it.

Tighe: Sure, Liverpool look unconvincing, but it was less than a month ago that Galatasaray took a three-goal lead to Turin, took on 10-man Juventus and very nearly blew it.

Osimhen eventually scored the goal to clinch the aggregate victory in extra time and he didn't even celebrate. Some speculated he was showing respect to a team that tried to sign him recently, but I suspect he was either embarrassed or outraged at his team's collective performance on the night.

Put this Gala side, with just a one-goal lead, in a battle at Anfield when the stakes are through the roof, and I'd bet it's them who fold, not Liverpool.

Q3. Madrid finally turned in a potent, coherent performance and showed their absolute best against Man City, something we've not seen all season and certainly not under Alvaro Arbeloa. Antonio Rüdiger kept Erling Haaland quiet -- again -- while Federico Valverde scored some video-game goals. Nico O'Reilly, a rising star in recent weeks for Guardiola, was targeted ruthlessly time and again. Can City rally at home, or is this yet another tournament in which the Spanish side get the better of Guardiola & Co.?

Kirkland: No doubt, this was Madrid's biggest result of the season, by far, and one of their best performances. They've often come up short in big games: against Liverpool and City in the group stage, against Atleti, and against Barcelona in the Spanish Supercopa. Not on Wednesday. And their reward is a big 3-0 lead to take to Manchester next week.

Listening to Guardiola afterward, though, it was pretty clear he thought the game was more evenly matched than the scoreline suggests. City got into dangerous positions -- especially down the left, up against Trent Alexander-Arnold, in the first half -- and couldn't produce a final ball. Up the other end, Valverde was ruthless for Madrid. I wouldn't be at all surprised if City took the lead in Manchester, or even went 2-0 up, and pushed Madrid all the way. Madrid were good Wednesday night, but they're still vulnerable: They've shown it over and over again this season.

Tighe: Pep might think it was a relatively even game, but outside of the first 10 minutes, I'm not sure that's true.

I was stunned Madrid looked so good (they've been ropey all season, looked terrible against Benfica and fielded at best half of their strongest team here) -- but when you look at the XI Guardiola chose ... well, perhaps he handed Los Blancos the initiative.

I generally believe the "Pep overcomplicates big games" narrative to be massively overblown, but I have some gripes on this occasion. First, three wingers? Why? And that doesn't even include former winger Bernardo Silva. Antoine Semenyo struggled as he was pushed into central areas and Savinho was ineffective; Jérémy Doku was the only one who looked good.

And second, It's easy to forget, but for Semenyo, Marc Guéhi and even Abdukodir Khusanov, a Champions League knockout game at the famous Bernabéu is a huge step. Semenyo and Guéhi joined midseason from AFC Bournemouth and Palace, respectively.

It's a big stage, the lights are very bright, and Pep didn't help himself -- or his players -- with his selection.

play

1:37

Burley: Man City were absolutely awful vs. Real Madrid

Craig Burley slams Man City's performance vs. Real Madrid after losing 3-0 in the Champions League.

Marcotti: It's a huge win: Real Madrid took the pitch with the right spirit, and Arbeloa has bought himself some time. And, yes, let's remind ourselves there was no Kylian Mbappé, Éder Militão, Rodrygo, Jude Bellingham and Álvaro Carreras. And, sure, Madrid are in the driver's seat for a place in the quarterfinal at this stage and with Thibaut Courtois between the sticks and all those individual weapons they might yet win it.

But -- yes, there's always a but -- there are two points to make. First, this is not a blueprint, you're not building toward anything. You won't play many more teams that play the way City do and there won't be too many more situations where you can play a de facto back five and no center forward. So it's not a platform, it's a needs-must situation. Which is fine, find a way to win and all that, but the open questions about this team haven't gone away.

The other is that Man City were pretty poor. I think Guardiola got a ton of things wrong with both his team selection -- as Sam points out above -- and the game plan. Semenyo in that role contributes little, wheeling out Savinho when he has been peripheral all season seemed silly. And, again, playing without Rayan Cherki (or Phil Foden) leaves you lacking in creativity. As for the defending, well, Sam makes an interesting point about the Bernabéu and inexperience and whatever else with this back four (other than Rúben Dias), but, hey, Pep built this team. I don't think the sorts of mistakes we saw were because of inexperience, probably more to lack of awareness and bad decisions (O'Reilly on Valverde stands out).

Ogden: This tie is still alive because Madrid will travel to the Etihad with perhaps all of their injured players out again and that makes them vulnerable. City could easily overturn a 3-0 deficit. It just takes a strong start, an early goal and the inexperience of Real's younger players to feel the heat, just as Guehi, Semenyo and Khusanov did in the Bernabéu.

But Real's lead gives them a huge advantage because they will be able to hit City on the counter as they will inevitably leave gaps at the back. I was at Anfield when Liverpool overturned a 3-0 deficit against a Barcelona side that was much stronger than this Real team, so I know anything can happen. And of the three English teams trailing by three goals after the first legs, I rate City as the only one capable of fighting back to win the tie.

It's unlikely, but they can still do it.

Q4. Chelsea's lack of maturity and cohesion showed in a chastening 5-2 loss at Paris Saint-Germain, one in which they twice tied the score before giving up three goals in the final 15 minutes ... including yet another big error from a keeper. Are PSG "back" and now in a position to win this title? And what can the Blues take away from the defeat, if anything?

Tighe: PSG can beat any team in the world when they turn it on in attack. That flow and joy has been missing too often from their play this season, but on Wednesday we saw it -- and Chelsea ran headfirst into it.

What the Blues can take from the contest, though, is that they are clearly fully capable of causing PSG issues of their own. This was a really good back-and-forth game for just over an hour, with Chelsea creating four big chances in total and enjoying several spells in which they played quick, penetrative football.

The game got away from them in the end, and the question of maturity -- from both the players' perspective and perhaps the manager's too -- is fair to raise, but they go back to Stamford Bridge knowing they can cause their opponents damage. That's enough to hang onto for now.

Marcotti: PSG never went away, so they can't be back. I don't put them among the favorites to win the Champions League because they downgraded severely at keeper (and without Donnarumma they wouldn't have won it last year), too many players have been too inconsistent, they have a title fight on their hands domestically and Luis Enrique is on the verge of turning erratic and weird again. But, yes, they can win it, especially because, of the top-tier favorites, everybody but Bayern seems to have glaring weaknesses.

As for Chelsea, you can call it lack of maturity if you like, but I don't think youth is much of an alibi. Wesley Fofana and Enzo Fernández are 25, Trevoh Chalobah, Pedro Neto and Reece James 26, Marc Cucurella 27. They're not children. And it doesn't take experience or guile to figure out that if you're a goal down in a two-legged clash, it's best not to concede since the return leg is at your place next week. That just takes intelligence and leadership from the bench.

Chelsea boss Liam Rosenior has 101 mitigating factors, but waiting until seven minutes from time to make changes when physically you're looking a little spent was strange. So too is this midseason demotion of Robert Sánchez for Filip Jørgensen. (And, let's face it Jørgensen's blunder sent PSG on their way). Sánchez isn't particularly special, but I'm not clear on what basis you'd think Jørgensen would be a better bet.

play

1:44

Moreno: PSG result is embarrassing for Chelsea

Alejandro Moreno believes Chelsea should have done better to manage the game vs. PSG in the Champions League

Kirkland: Can PSG win it? Sure. After Bayern, I think they're the strongest team on their side of the draw. They've got problems, but they should still make the semifinals, and if you get that far, anything's possible.

As for Chelsea, they competed with PSG for an hour. At that stage, the tie looked wide open. I think they'll fancy their chances of making a game of it at Stamford Bridge.

Ogden: Let's be honest, this game turned on a mistake by Chelsea goalkeeper Jørgensen. His team was in good shape at 2-2 with just over 15 minutes to go, but he lost the ball and PSG punished him by scoring to make it 3-2, sparking an incredible surge by the home side that ended with a 5-2 win that, for me, settles the tie.

Before the Jørgensen error, Chelsea looked like a team that could hurt any of the remaining teams in the competition. They are unpredictable and inexperienced, but when they perform, they are very good and have some top-quality attacking players.

But it all just feels a little soft at Chelsea. There is no killer instinct, nobody wants to assume leadership on the pitch and Rosenior doesn't have the presence or authority of a Champions League coach.

PSG have all of those credentials. They are absolutely ruthless, the team is stacked with players prepared to take the initiative and Luis Enrique is second only to Guardiola as a world-class coach.

Who knows if Chelsea will ever progress to be like PSG, but you kind of doubt it simply because of the way to club is set up.

Q5. Dealer's choice: What else struck you in the first legs this week?

Tighe: What happened to our beloved No. 1s this week? We often talk about the Goalkeepers Union -- well, did they all have a meeting on Monday and agree to all forget how to play?

Kinsky's wretched 17 minutes at the Metropolitano has been well covered, and Atleti's Jan Oblak will be thankful for that, as he played a terrible pass out from the back in the buildup to Dominic Solanke's late goal.

Then came Gianluigi Donnarumma, who made two huge mistakes as Man City were downed at the Bernabéu. He lost his bearings for the first goal, unsure if he could handle the ball or not, then took down Vinícius Júnior for a penalty (which he got up and saved, to his credit).

And last but not least, the Parc des Princes. Jørgensen started well for Chelsea against PSG, but inexplicably handed possession to PSG and allowed Vitinha to chip him in the second half. He then invoked the wrath of Fernández by doing it again, then finally allowed Khvicha Kvaratskhelia's last-gasp effort to squirm through him. At the other end, Matvei Safonov was hardly convincing; he should have saved Malo Gusto's equalizing effort in the first half.

Kirkland: Griezmann. There was a chance he wouldn't even be at Atleti by now, as he pondered a move to Orlando City SC before he saw sense and opted to stay until the end of the season. And here he was, providing one of the moments of the round, with his mesmerizing, second-half flick assist for Alvarez. It's the kind of effortless, highlight-reel piece of skill we've seen from Griezmann for years. So few players have the technique and presence of mind to pull something off like that. Let's take a moment to enjoy it, while he's still here.

play

2:25

Are Bayern Munich favourites to win the Champions League?

The ESPN 'FC TV' crew react to Bayern Munich's stunning 6-1 victory against Atalanta in the UEFA Champions League.

Marcotti: Guys, sure, Griezmann and keepers ... how about the fact that Bodo/Glimt won more games (and points) in this set of Champions League first legs than all six Premier League teams combined? The Bodo story rumbles on and we'll likely see them in the quarterfinals, but I thought the story here is how poor -- other than Newcastle United -- so many of the Premier League clubs were.

Ordinarily, you'd blame fatigue at this stage. But Arsenal (who drew, but without Noni Madueke's dive to win a penalty would have lost), Chelsea and City opted to play the reserves over the weekend. Tottenham are a pathological case at this point, but, of course, they didn't play at all in the FA Cup, whereas Liverpool played Friday. And it's not as if any of these teams (except for Liverpool) played opponents in rude health. I don't know if there's a pattern here and I'm certainly not going to do that stupid thing people like to do and draw broad conclusions about the state of the Premier League. But when you rest so many players over the weekend, at a minimum you should put out a better showing than what we saw.

Ogden: We've got to this stage of the talking points without mentioning Bayern Munich, so I feel it's my duty to send some flowers to Bavaria and talk up arguably the strongest team in the competition right now.

Bayern hammered Atalanta and sealed a 6-1 win in Bergamo with Harry Kane spending the entire 90 minutes on the bench alongside the similarly unused Lennart Karl.

Atalanta are no mugs. They fought back from a seemingly hopeless position to eliminate Borussia Dortmund in the playoff round, but Bayern just dominated them on their own turf.

The second leg is a total formality, so Bayern can look forward to a quarterfinal against Real or City in which Kompany's side will be the favorites against whoever they play. Bayern have a tough path to the final with Liverpool or PSG probably waiting in the semis, but nobody wants to meet Bayern.